Posts Tagged ‘EMS Insider’

APEX Interviews from EMSNow TV: Sparton, Promex, Hunter Technology, ATS Corporation, MC Assembly,Vario Systems

Phil Stoten interviews Charlie Barnhart at APEX 2012 in San Diego:

Charlie interviews Sparton CEO, Cary Wood

Eric Miscoll interviews Vario Systems’ Alicia Hamby at APEX 2012 in San Diego:

Charlie interviews Promex President Richard Otte

Charlie interviews Hunter Technology’s Joe O’Neill

Eric interviews MC Assembly’s Michael Cox

Eric interviews ATS Corporation’s Steve Canzano

It’s Time to Look Forward: Risk Factors #7-9

By Charlie Barnhart

In the closing paragraph of article number 6 of this Risk Series I mentioned that “Risk is not always a noun (i.e. a probability) as it can also be a transitive verb (an actual exposure) and in the world of business its many underlying elements tend to pile one on top of another.” When I wrote these words, in my mind’s eye, I saw a stack of irregularly shaped blocks struggling to remain vertical. The vision of a Jenga game where no one wins as each bock is so interdependently connected that if even one was removed the entire pile would topple.

Not a pretty picture but here’s what it looked like…

At the top of the stack was the destabilizing influence of price reductions during periods of increasing cost being wobbled by the reduction of internal resources at OEMS just below it, then in the middle a shrinking demand cycle struggling to counterbalance the ever increasing velocity of change in business, and on the bottom, the process of geographic concentration slowing crushing the principle of institutional continuity out of shape.

But it wasn’t this image that worried me the most, as we spend a great deal of time at CBA thinking about how these individual pieces interact AND how their shapes evolve over time.

What worried me was the platform they were sitting on, a three legged stool of:

  • Unpredictable capital markets
  • Geopolitical unrest and instability
  • Overtaxed infrastructure in low cost regions

Why are these three elements so worrisome? Because, in spite of what you might see or hear from your favorite news source, geopolitical and geo-economics outcomes are simply beyond anyone’s ability to forecast.

Meteorological analysis is a good comparable, as even after centuries of study and the development of very sophisticated modeling software running on the world’s best supercomputers the farther you go out in time with weather forecasts the broader the range of error becomes. Same-day forecasts are usually pretty good, five to seven day projections are a crap-shoot and beyond that it literally becomes a “guess”.  The reason is simple; there are just too many variables. A butterfly flaps its wings in Singapore and three weeks later a hurricane begins to form over the Atlantic Ocean.

So given this reality how do you deal with unmanageable risks?

Our recommendation is “change the game.”  Playing Jenga in business is a bad idea to start with but then doing it on an unstable, unpredictable platform makes it even worst. A better game would be one that eliminates the “vertical stacking” of risk variables so that when the platform does begin to shake (which it inevitably will even if we can’t predict when) the blocks might move around a bit but hopefully won’t all fall off the stool.

What’s better than Jenga?

How about going back to the basics, like the fundamental tenets of business that we all learned and have practiced for many years? I know you know them…

  • Create innovative products
  • Produce them to high standards
  • Sell them at competitive prices
  • Enrich the customer experience
  • Build lasting value for your stakeholders
  • Be a good corporate citizen

Obviously each of these objectives can be fulfilled in countless ways, which is exactly as it should be. Business is all about creativity and competition; no one deserves or is given a free-pass. Success is only granted to those who are the most creative and diligent and then only until they are replaced by someone who can play the game even better.

This means that winning isn’t easy and unfortunately, perhaps because of human nature – perhaps because we’ve lost our moral compass, it has become far too easy to drift off the highroad into a swampland composed of…

  • Me too solutions
  • Marginal quality
  • Pricing gamesmanship
  • Enriching yourself at your customers’ expense
  • Short term thinking
  • Exploitation

Which I believe is the poisoned well from which excessive risk springs.

In this series we have reviewed each of the nine elements of risk that have more than doubled our Composite Business Index over the past four years.

Including:

  1. Prices are down but costs are up
  2. Fewer resources at OEMs worldwide
  3. The demand cycle has shortened
  4. Businesses are operating at higher velocities
  5. Supply chain concentration in Asia
  6. Loss of institutional continuity
  7. Unpredictable capital markets
  8. Geopolitical unrest and instability
  9. Overtaxed infrastructure in low cost regions

Wherever possible we have offered suggestions and alternatives. Where options were few we have provided insights gained from watching this situation develop.  We have tried to be direct and unambiguous in our presentation of the facts.

We have already notified our Outsourcing Navigator Council membership that we have raised our risk advice to “LIKELY” meaning that on an industry average basis it is now likely that an OEM will experience a serious disruption in their supply-solution in CY2012.

Yes, the current situation is that bad.

Bottom-line, do yourself and your stakeholders a favor and do something – TODAY – to start mitigating risk. Looking over your shoulder is a waste time you can’t afford; the risk is directly in front of you!

Risk factor #5: Supply chain concentration in Asia

By Charlie Barnhart

What if these stories were in today’s news?

Widespread Destruction
The morning after China was struck by the most powerful earthquake to hit the nation in recorded history the disaster’s massive impact is only beginning to be revealed. Rescue efforts began with first light as military helicopters plucked survivors from roofs and carried them to safety. The 8.9-magnitude temblor, centered near the east coast of China, killed hundreds of thousands of people, caused the formation of 30-foot walls of water that swept across rice fields, engulfed entire towns, dragged houses onto highways, and tossed cars like toys.

“The earth shook with such ferocity,” said a US visitor “I thought things were coming to an end … it was simply terrifying.” Buildings shook, heaved and collapsed by the score, and numerous fires ignited. Chinese media reported, hundreds of thousands of people were missing and millions were displaced. Countless households are without electricity, said China’s ambassador to the United States.

Nuclear Meltdown
A nuclear reactor near Qinshan, south of Shanghai, may be starting to melt down after China’s biggest earthquake on record hit the area yesterday. Fuel rods at the No. 1 reactor at the plant run by China Electric may be melting, Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, spokesman said by phone today. “If the fuel rods are melting and this continues, a reactor meltdown is possible,” an inspector said. A meltdown refers to a heat buildup in the core of such intensity it melts the floor of the reactor containment housing. Luckily winds in the area of Qinshan plant are blowing at less than 18 kilometers per hour mostly in an offshore direction, according to a 4 p.m. update from the China Meteorological Association.

Supply-chain Impact
Companies both in China and around the world have already begun feeling the sting of supply chain disruptions resulting from the catastrophic earthquake and its aftermath. In addition to the damage done to factories in northeastern China by the quake itself, companies must contend with ruined roads, fuel shortages, and rolling power blackouts. Many companies are not sure when some of their facilities will be able to resume production, creating uncertainty for companies further up and down the supply chain.

“This is serious and it’s still difficult to evaluate; you have the earthquake, you have the tsunami, rolling blackouts, and fuel shortages hitting at the same time.” The sectors hardest hit are consumer goods and electronics companies, both well-represented in China. “We still don’t know the full extent of what can be done to substitute for the affected parts,” a spokeswoman said.

Electronics Companies Zapped
Many companies in China have closed their plants and generally aren’t sure when they will resume operations. Typical is XYZ, which said on Tuesday that it would partially restart operations at one facility while six other plants remain idle with no estimate of when they will come back online. Part shortages are a major issue. “If the shortage of parts and materials supplied to these plants continues, we will consider all necessary measures, including a temporary shift of production overseas,” they said on Tuesday.

Another local company managed to get one factory back into production this week, while several others remain closed. Additionally, ABC, one of the world’s largest chipmaker, has only managed to restart four of its 22 facilities. The company said the rolling power outages were disrupting production at many of its plants.

“There are a huge number of little bits of the high-tech food chain which are done nowhere but in China,” Jane Doe, senior investment manager of MMM Equity said. “Nobody else has the capacity, and in some cases the technology, to do it.”

Hopefully by this point you’ve realized that these news articles were actually from the horrible catastrophe that struck Tohoku, Japan on March the 11th, 2011. The only thing we’ve changed in the copy was the geographic location, the scale of impact (i.e. increased the numbers in these stories to reflect the differences in the populations in these two areas) and the names of the entities cited.

But what if it really had happened in China instead of Japan? What would the impact have been on the global electronic industry?

We are not going to argue the proportional concentration of electronics related resources in Japan versus China or quote endless statistics on what percentage of this type of material or that type part are controlled in which geography. Everyone has their favorite source for this data and we encourage the reader to select whichever they feel most comfortable using; we all know what the reality of the situation is.

Over the past decade the global electronics supply-chain has migrated to Asia with the majority of it concentrated in the river delta, industrial hubs of China.

Bottom-line: if a Tohoku type of event occurred in one of these regions of China today it wouldn’t be weeks or months for the industry to recover, it would be years. Global businesses would lose billions if not tens of billions of dollars in revenue, lay-offs would be in epidemic proportions, even enterprises with rock-solid balance-sheet would immediately switch to a survival mode of operation (i.e. meaning there would be widespread failure of any supplier/service provider whose business was related to either discretionary or B to B spend) and some significant percentage of OEMs reliant on a commodity-based business model would simply go out of business.

It’s harder to think of things that wouldn’t be impacted, than to think of those that would.

We have a model for what happens when a critical resource is concentrated in just a few areas, like oil. Supply and demand is artificially managed (to control prices), geopolitics vs. the market dynamic becomes the basis of distribution and strategic interests are protected (read: wars are fought). Not a pretty picture.

Are we overstating the probable outcome? Perhaps, but to be honest we don’t think so. What we do know for certain is that a gentleman named Edward Aloysius Murphy, Jr. once said “Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.” I just hope the term “China Syndrome” doesn’t end-up taking on a whole new meaning.

Closing note: We apologize to anyone we may have offended by using the consequences of the Tohoku tragedy in this article to make a literary point. Our hearts go out to the people of Japan and those around the world who were impacted by this cataclysmic event. We recognize that it was not only a natural disaster but a human one as well.

NEXT ARTICLE: Risk Factor #6: Loss of institutional continuity

Risk Factor #2: Fewer resources at OEMs worldwide

By Charlie Barnhart

(Part two of a nine part series on why risk in the global electronics industry has increased over 45% in the past four years)

In the first article of this series I wrote about the demand for continual, on-going price reductions during a time when costs are going up, not down. I explained that this demand on the part of the OEM consumer of EMS services is an irrational expectation that damages everyone even remotely involved with the transaction. Specifically, I said…

“Throughout the supply chain, each link has been stretched to the breaking point. Suppliers of everything from raw-materials to components to major sub-assemblies are pushing-back on both the EMS and ODM community with the result that entire end-market sectors are being abandoned or sold off by OEMs as they can no longer squeeze out a profit by squeezing their suppliers. The “outsourcing dividend” has long been spent. And those next even lower-cost geographies, far out over the horizon, are more pipe-dream than viable alternatives, as they lack the infrastructure, resources, capabilities and political stability to replace the current solutions.”

What I didn’t say was that I think the senior executive teams at OEMs worldwide already know all of this.

OEM top-level executives have been mining alternative sources of cost-reductions for some time. Squeezing every element of their enterprise in a futile attempt to preserve margin and thereby placate the obscenity called Wall Street. A bizarre new reality where securities analysts have become the arbiters of performance expectations, in spite of the fact that they produce nothing and at best have minimal insight into the  real-world complexities of the electronics industry.

Pink slips are now the ticket to a better bottom line.

No element of business is sacrosanct; every job at every company is subject to being outsourced, except of course the senior management team. Design, IS/IT, Payroll, Human Resources, Manufacturing, Logistics, Finance, Customer Service, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. All can be done by someone else at a lower cost, probably not with the same level of acumen or enthusiasm as an actual company employee but at a lower cost none the less.

Old news you say? Keep reading.

As incredible as it may seem – apparently – now it’s the folks who manage outsourcing programs that have been targeted for elimination.  I say apparently because we here at CBA have noticed an expanding list of folks who have either vanished completely, or are part of a MUCH smaller organization. In some cases, an organization so truncated it would be inadequate to provide oversight and control of a program across the street much less on the other side of the planet. Yet, we still see midmarket OEMs implementing cross-hemispheric supply solutions with little more than a skeletal team of managers located many time zones away from where their products are manufactured.

An extremely risky, questionable approach that is incongruent with today’s reality.

I guess it boils down to the fact that when the executive management team decides that the number one (read: “sole”) focus of the outsourcing team is going to be price reduction (no matter which way the cost curve is trending) the only staff you really need is someone to say really loud and with great animosity, “I need it cheaper or I’ll go somewhere else!”

When you’ve laid-off or outsourced everything but the outsourcing team, what’s left?

Almost six years ago, I wrote…

If you have never been involved with outsourcing, take it from me – outsourcing is hard work.

It doesn’t matter if you work for the buyer or seller, or are a supplier of parts or services – outsourcing is hard work. And in my humble opinion the people who make their living doing the work of outsourcing are some of the most dedicated yet least appreciated people in the electronics industry.”

Were these folks really underappreciated then (and now)? Since many of them have been laid off since I wrote that piece, it would appear so.

Perhaps it’s because the people who practice the craft of outsourcing have never shared with their bosses just how complicated and problematic the process they manage can be – probably because they were too busy trying to expedite product deliveries while simultaneously mitigating excess materials from the third product forecast change of the month. Forecasts they know will be obsolete before the issues they create can even be reconciled. Or maybe they didn’t say anything because they just knew no one would listen.

Ever hear a CEO telling securities analysts how they were going to build the next great commercial enterprise based on a fantastic new widget that would change everything, but would never actually be touched by anyone in the company?  I hear that all the time on earnings calls, and see it in press releases designed to boost stock prices.

Guess what… these CEO dreams are only possible because there are hundreds if not hundreds of thousands of very hard working people out there building the products that the CEO thinks no one will ever touch. People both inside and outside the enterprise with the chutzpa to do the heavy lifting and fight the endless battles, people whose experience is measured by scars not patina, people who make it happen – everyday – not because someone tells them how much they’re appreciated but in spite of the fact that they’re ignored.

If you are one of the few remaining, we know you will keep marching on despite the lack of respect and support. If you are no longer in the craft but are reading this let us know, we’d love to hear from you and continue to be your voice!

All of you rock, and we know it.

NEXT ARTICLE: Risk Factor #3: The demand cycle has shortened.

Risk Factor #1: Prices are down but costs are up

By Charlie Barnhart

In any commercial enterprise the difference between selling price and the total cost of what is sold needs to be a positive number in order for that enterprise to be profitable. Simply put this means you need to sell your products or services for more than you spend producing and providing them. This is a  fundamental tenet of business that everyone reading this article probably understands intuitively.

But what is the risk if the number is negative?

It depends.

If you are the seller and you continue to lose money you will go out of business. If you are the buyer you will have to find a new supplier. In either case a disruptive event occurs that impacts both parties.

Then why would either party tolerate such a circumstance?

Good question but one that is very hard to answer as the fundamentals of business, while simple, are not always in perfect balance with the realities of human nature. And as we rely on people to make business decisions there is inevitably a tension between these two forces. Think of it as the motion of a see-saw, a game of balance where the person on one side must sacrifice his or her advantage to continue the process. Historically, rationality has trumped self-interest as everyone wanted to keep the game going.  But recently in the arena of global outsourcing, something seems to have gone wrong.

During last quarter’s Outsourcing Navigator Council webinar we reported to our membership that the Composite Business Risk (CBR) index, a measure of risk in the global electronics manufacturing industry, has increased over 45 percent in the last four years and that…

“It is now believed that the CBR has been indicating a consistently increasing level of risk in the Global Electronics Industry since its inception early in CY2007. CBA believes this trend to be derivative of a decade long shift in the approach of (primarily) North American and European OEMs to supply-chain management that while economically expedient have proven incongruent with global economic and geo-political realities.”

In other words, the level of risk is currently so high it is no longer just selected outsourcing projects that are at peril but perhaps the entire outsourcing industry. Lower prices at any cost have now become the new normal. Endless, sequential cost-downs for electronic manufacturing services are virtually every OEM’s strategy for preserving next quarter’s margin if not actual profits.

Throughout the supply chain, each link has been stretched to the breaking point. Suppliers of everything from raw-materials to components to major sub-assemblies are pushing-back on both the EMS and ODM community with the result being that entire end-market sectors are being abandoned or sold off by the OEMs as they can no longer squeeze out a profit by squeezing their suppliers. The “outsourcing dividend” has long been spent. And those next even lower-cost geographies, far out over the horizon, are more pipe-dream than viable alternatives, as they lack the infrastructure, resources, capabilities and political stability to replace the current solutions.

Can the situation really be this bad?

Yes, actually it is. The underlying costs in most of the current so called low-cost regions are going up and in some including China by as much as 1 ½ percent per month. The reasons are many; inflation, monetary exchange, adoption of new environmental, regulatory and labor policies. Nor is this just a manufacturing-value-add issue as these escalating costs impact the entire supply-chain which has concentrated in these very same regions.

So what is an OEM to do?

It depends on what market the OEM serves, their business model and their scale.

Scenario I

If the OEM is in a highly regulated industry such as Military, Medical (non-consumer), Aerospace or something similar that supports reasonably stable and sustainable margins then they need to take a hard look at their current outsourcing solution and determine:

  1. Is the solution providing both the level of support and service they require?
  2. Are they (at a minimum) reasonably satisfied with the value they’re receiving?

If the answer to both of the above questions is YES, then stay the course but build into your business planning the reality that prices go down only when costs go down.

If the answer to either question is NO then start shopping, but this time think LOCAL (the closer the better!) Contrary to what many so called experts tout, CBA’s data clearly indicate that closer is not only less risky but also in the majority of cases highly competitive on a True Cost of Outsourcing basis.

Scenario II

If the OEM is in a commercial mid-scale market such as Industrial, Automotive or Instrumentation and serves a niche that is innovation versus price based then they too need to take a hard look at their current outsourcing solution and determine:

  1. Is the solution a good technological match against both today’s and tomorrow’s roadmap?
  2. Has a solution analysis been performed to determine which party (i.e. the OEM or the EMS) should be performing which functions to maximize value and minimize overall cost ?

If the answer to both of the above questions is YES then stay the course but build into your business planning adequate resources to support and grow the relationship over time.

If the answer to either question is NO then repair the disconnect or start shopping! If you are outsourcing $25-100M/year then think REGIONAL (i.e. build in the region for the region to minimize time zone separation, which is a high impact variables for risk).

Scenario  III

If the OEM is in the Computing, Communication or Consumer space or any of the other previously mentioned market segments and outsource over $100M/year they need to ask themselves:

  1. Are our products sold based on price?

If the answer is YES, either start innovating or stop outsourcing (if the answer is NO, re-read Scenarios I & II). The truth is, by definition your company is a commodity provider and a commodity provider’s only possible advantage is to MANUFACTURE their own products more cheaply and at a higher quality than their competitors.

Sorry, if that doesn’t happen to be your company’s “core-competency.” Maybe the management team should have taken their MBA in Operations Management versus Marketing. Outsourcing is not a strategy, it is a tool. And like dynamite it can be a powerful tool when properly applied to an appropriate task but misapply it and it will kill you.

In the beginning of this article we explained that based on our research we believe this trend of escalating risk and potentially failure of significant parts of the outsourcing industry is…

derivative of a decade long shift in the approach of (primarily) North American and European OEMs to supply-chain management that while economically expedient have proven incongruent with global economic and geo-political realities.

The bottom-line is crystal clear, the music is going to stop, and if you work for one of the OEMs we are talking about in the above quotation we suggest you find a chair! We just hope it isn’t a deck-chair on the Titanic.

Next week’s Risk Factor #2: Fewer resources at OEMs worldwide.

Executive Summary: China vs. Mexico research

Download a free Executive Summary of Eric’s ONC Special Report Mexico vs. China: An Objective Comparison for North American OEMs. The summary includes the study’s rationale, Table of Contents outlining survey findings related to OEM perceptions of the strengths and weaknesses of the two regions, and a discussion of EMS trends, including regionalization and total cost of ownership analysis.

Download Executive Summary here>>

Contact Eric@CharlieBarnhart.com to find out how to get a copy of complete report.


Sustainable electronics manufacturing

Recent C-level attention has spotlighted the bottom line benefits of measures to improve sustainability, typically defined in terms relating to environmental impact, including reducing carbon emissions, waste and the use of natural resources.

What apparently isn’t being discussed as much in the C-suite is the human impact of the exploitation of low labor cost regions, which should be more prominently included in any discussion of sustainability and corporate social responsibility. When the global manufacturing center of gravity first shifted to Asia and other low cost regions, executives may have been ignorant of the true human cost of these dirt cheap prices; now, however, after decades of journalists revealing human rights abuses, no executive can hide from these realities.

Furthermore, decision-makers in the electronics industry have an even greater duty to act responsibly, since manufacturing these types of products carries much higher risk to human health and safety than a few kids sewing soccer balls together in a distant village.

One specific electronics industry practice encourages – in fact mandates – companies to constantly push the envelope in this regard: draconian contractual terms that require continual price reductions. This practice defies logic, as costs clearly can’t go down indefinitely as they would eventually reach zero. The search to satisfy these contractual requirements leads manufacturers to find new ways to cut costs. At this point, the outsourcing dividend has been spent. The low hanging fruit is gone. Mid-market companies with lower volume requirements never enable the economies of scale the industry was designed to leverage.  So where do new cost reductions come from?

The answer is not pretty.  Business owners in low cost regions, where government regulations are minimal and there are still pockets of desperate poverty, are creative and resourceful when it comes to competitive bidding. You want a cheaper metal stamping? We’ll give you that price by getting the process done, not with the machines that do it safely, but by hand by older Chinese workers willing to endure flying metal fragments and horrendously unsafe working conditions . You want cheaper plastic molding? No problem, as long as you don’t mind your parts being made from grindings from old toys, plastic pens and other refuse. Will you find out about it before it’s too late? Only if you really intend to figure out how the price can be so low before the contract is awarded.

Yes, dangerous practices in unregulated geographies are still occurring, and with even greater guile and secrecy.

We realize that with globalization comes an increasing pressure to cut costs from one end of the supply chain to another. Emerging markets represent a huge opportunity for electronics companies in all market sectors and the jobs go to the lowest bidder. Period. Yet companies still must find the will to resist the temptation to win the project at any cost because that’s where the pressure starts, and cost reduction mandates then ripple down to the last metal stamping.

During the years preceding the U.S. Civil War, there were many business reasons put forth to justify why slavery in the South was an absolute economic necessity: You can’t grow cotton without slavery. People need inexpensive clothing. Most slaves are being treated better than factory workers in the North.  That all seems ridiculous and unimaginable now, but listen to some of the arguments for allowing teenagers to work 12-hour shifts without bathroom breaks.

It has to come from the top. C-level executives have to make it clear that cost reductions must come from real improvements in efficiencies arising from technology advances, not by exploiting desperate people. There is a bright line, and everyone knows the difference. It just takes leaders willing to include humans in the definition of sustainability and unwilling to turn a blind eye on the practices they now know are being used to cut costs.

For more information about CBA’s data-driven approach to decision-making, go to www.charliebarnhart.com

Green Shoots

I don’t know about you but I keep hearing about “green-shoots”.
Not on the Home & Gardening channel but rather on the nightly news, in the financial press and during day-to-day conversation with electronics industry insiders whom I’m pretty sure have never actually seen a real green-shoot. So what the heck is the deal with this green-shoots thing? My take: A pretty word picture for when you really don’t have anything of substance to contribute but want (feel the need?) to say something …encouraging (I like that word but sometimes substitute Pollyanna). “While the global economy continues to contract we’re now seeing green-shoots… ” Sounds impressive but really doesn’t say much.

Maybe the green-shoots things is a metaphor for the changing of the seasons and the coming of spring? Yes, that must be it…  the optimism of new growth and the hope of a future bounty. We only need to be patient and let the green-shoots grow and all things will return to normal. Happy days are here again, just around the corner… I can see the green-shoots!

But what if the green-shoots are a noxious weed about to destroy what little remains of our already seriously distressed garden. How can we know for sure? They’re just shoots and unless we can find a “shootologist” (the last of which I think died of a massive cerebral hemorrhage during the baby-shower celebrating the birth of the credit-default swap) it’s going to be really, really difficult, if not impossible, to tell one shoot from another.

Maybe to be safe we should start killing the green-shoots. What leads us to believe the compromised soil of our garden is going to yield anything but weeds? Have we done anything to improve its growing capacity? Sure there’s those billions of pounds of manure we’ve started plowing under but wasn’t it the uncontrolled application of manure that got us into this predicament in the first place (yes, the manure was from China but we got it on the cheap)?

What’s the alternative? I guess there’s that whole slow, stupid thing about rotating crops and tilling the soil and all that other stuff about hard work, etcetera, etcetera. But everyone knows you can’t produce 10X as much year-on-year by following that type of old-school, antiquated thinking.  

Besides, if the green-shoots are a noxious weed we could try smoking them!